This a reaction post even if you are sick of them

[neveralarch]

But in reality, it's mostly just me talking about history, and hardly anything to do with Who at all. Good priorities, me.

I stopped to google this, and the first black man in the Presidential Secret Service was in 1961. Score one for inclusive accuracy! (I read his autobiography a while ago, and I thought they had it right, but I have to look this kind of thing up or it bothers me. It's an interesting book, if you want to know about civil rights history and wrongful conviction: The Echo from Dealey Plaza, by Abraham Bolden.) I also looked up the name of the one Secret Service agent who gets a name, but I don't think he's based on a real person. Bah.

Also, can I say that this actor doesn't look much like Nixon? He does not. I say this as a person who may or may not have made large amounts of former president fanart in the last four months. He doesn't look enough like a caricature to look like Nixon. But he's a good actor otherwise, so I'm sorry to be so shallow.

This is the big one, though - if there isn't a 1776 the Musical crossover with Doctor Who within the next week, I'll want to know why not. (This would be Jefferson and Adams, since Hamilton was busy actually fighting the British and wasn't at the convention. But Adams/Hamilton is the ultimate enemies pairing, so what I really want is the one where they fight over the Doctor. If I write this, there will be a waiting period of five months until I get back to all of my Founding history books, so I'm hoping someone else will.)

In sum - Doctor Who, please never stop making historicals, even if they are terrifying. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to get my historical RPF love all over my favorite fandom.

Comments

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

I wondered about the black Secret Service guy, and then wondered if I was being racist for wondering if they'd have a black Secret Service guy in 1969, so thanks for that bit of clarification.

I liked that they managed to have Nixon as a character without either making him a cartoonish baddie or whitewashing him as they arguably did with Churchill last year - the strangeness and the twitchy paranoia was all there even if the actor, as you say, was not particularly Nixon-like. But then, neither was Anthony Hopkins! ;D

And yes, forget Adams/Hamilton - now you know what the Hamilton-Burr duel was really fought over! XD

[neveralarch]

I mean, I think it's a perfectly valid question, given the prejudices of the time. I'd probably have been annoyed if they were casting against history just because it would have felt like ignoring the actual racism of the period. (Though I can go both ways on the question of historical accuracy on casting, so this is definitely very YMMV.)

Totally agreed on the Nixon thing! The cuddily unambiguously nice Churchill in Series 5 was a bit disappointing, and I was actually expecting them to go all evil villain with Nixon. I think this was way more interesting and accurate - especially so early in Nixon's presidency. And, looking at who all has played Nixon, I think Anthony Hopkins actually is the best likeness! I guess Nixon just had one of those really unique faces.

OH MAN Hamilton-Burr duel, yessss. I want.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Yes, "politically correct casting" does irk me in things that are at least making a pretence of historical accuracy, because it's like it's trying to gloss over the unpleasant realities of some historical periods. But as you say, in some things it can be appropriate, depending on the nature of the production really.

I was a bit uncomfortable on the second viewing about how much the character Canton seemed to be disrespecting the black guy. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't intentional and that they weren't trying to paint him as racist or anything, because in all other respects he was a cool character, but, you know, Unfortunate Implications...

He did - at least the makeup here wasn't as bizarre as that foot-long rubber nose the guy playing Nixon in Watchmen seemed to be wearing... :D Yes, I was sort of expecting Nixon to be at least hostile to the Doctor and maybe even under the influence of the aliens or something, so this was unexpectedly nuanced really.

Heh - and the Doctor sort of putting Hamilton's aim off by messing around in the background or something... ;D

[neveralarch]

Yeah, Canton's treatment of ...Jackson? I think? was definitely off-putting for me. I think you're right and it's just unfortunate - maybe just part of the whole anti-authoritarian thing they were trying to show - but still. I'd like to give the writers the credit of historical characterization, but it felt way to casual for that. I'm holding out for possibly-Jackson to do something awesome in the next episode, just because he seemed the type of guy to do something awesome while protecting his president.

Oh man, I had forgotten about rubber-nosed Nixon. I think I had been reading lots of editorial cartoons or something and just accepted it as normal.

(Also, that's it, as soon as I'm out of school and back with my books, this fic is happening. ...So in about four months. Maybe I won't wait that long.)

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree it was too casual to be intentional, but you kind of wonder how the implications didn't occur to anybody on the production team... I want to see him do something awesome too.

The rubber nose was kind of mesmerising. I actually enjoyed Watchmen the movie more than a lot of people seemed to, but it did have more than its fair share of unintentionally hilarious moments. ;D

Well, I'll be looking forward to it...

[tweedymcgee.livejournal.com]

Oh lord, yes. A dreadful Adams/Hamilton/Doctor love triangle. *dies*

(Perhaps with a fobwatched Hamilton!Master? Hmmm.)

[neveralarch]

HAMILTON!MASTER. The Master gets fobwatched and becomes obsesssed with the fiscal grounding of a new country. Also, Hamilton was pulling pretty hard for a president-for-life - difference of opinion on the stability of frequent elections, or a plan to get himself elected and then rule for centuries???

This would have made my class on the Federalist Papers last semester so much more interesting.

[tardiscrash.livejournal.com]

I was wondering that too, I'm glad that they got the history right.

[neveralarch]

Yeah, as I was saying to jjpor above, I can go back and forth on casting against history but in this case it felt important that the casting actually was accurate.

[narwhale-callin.livejournal.com]

Um, I apologize for randomly creeping over here. I'm promise I'm mostly harmless. But the history minor/fanatic in me sort of flailed with joy at this post.

Thank you for looking up that thing about the black secret service agent. The unknown-ness about whether that was historically accurate or not was eating at me.

I say this as a person who may or may not have made large amounts of former president fanart in the last four months.

EPIC WANT. My secret weakness is presidential fanart.

1776 musical/Doctor Who? YES. THIS MUST HAPPEN. There can be singing about sexual combustability, romping through Cupid's grove with great agility, and most importantly, "homiciiiide, homiciiiide!"

Sorry again for creeping.

[neveralarch]

No apology necessary! History flailing is the best kind of flailing.

If you ACTUALLY want the presidential fanart, it is on my other secret blog Ghost Presidents. The introduction post is here - these have this whole concept to them, I don't even know. I was updating twice a week, but then I moved to Germany and started having classes again. I need to get back on the horse of regular updates.

Oh man, the songs in 1776. THE SONGS. If I had the ability, I would totally be rewriting But, Mr. Adams to fit the Doctor. Eleven would be so excited to have a chorus of founders.(Eleven and Ben Franklin meeting - TOTAL DISASTER or best meeting of the minds ever?)